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Leonor, how did you discover The Adverts and when did you first meet Gaye?
Leonor: I met Gaye at Rebellion Festival, I think it was in 2006 maybe. I was a big fan of The Adverts, when I was 14 I got my first Punk compilation CD and The Adverts were on there and it was one of the tracks that stood out. I didn't even have a computer at that age and then when I got a computer I started looking up things about The Adverts and I noticed Gaye of course and I thought she looked so cool so I kind of modelled my look on this one grainy picture I had of her, so yeah I was really a big fan.
So when you first met Gaye you didn't have any idea of doing a book or anything like that?
L: I must have been nineteen and I was still working out, finding out what I wanted to do and stuff so it was just more like being starstruck. Then I started organising gigs around that same time, I organised a couple of gigs for TV Smith in the Netherlands, and then I saw Gaye.
So that's similar to me, I also got to know Gaye through promoting TV Smith gigs, where were you putting on your shows?
L: In the Hague at a bar that was run by people who before they ran a squat and when that shut down they opened this very nice little bar with a stage called De Vinger. I put on a couple of shows there for TV Smith but also John Cooper-Clarke which is really wild as he's playing really big venues now. Of course I got talking to Gaye and she was just really sweet, I also bought some of her artwork, I think I bought two or three.
So, when did you get to the point of deciding on doing this project, how did you come up with the idea?
L: Well, I'm really interested in how objects carry a meaning so that's something I do a lot of research on and I'm very interested in family heirlooms or souvenirs. Also how objects change meaning over time 'cos if you carry it with you through your life then it will change, it will signify different things for different moments, so that's kind of the background. Then I have this publishing company SAGO Press and with that I want to make books that are based on archives and I also focus on female artists and musicians from the Punk era or the Post-Punk era of the 80's and started with Truus de Groot who was a Post-Punk pioneer in the Netherlands who went to New York when she was very young. So, it kind of went very naturally 'cos I was thinking for a while as I was organising gigs before and I'd stopped doing that I wanted to offer a platform again to other people or collaborate in a DIY way again. I was thinking maybe a magazine, maybe this or maybe that, and then I came across these photos by Truus de Groot and then I realised this would make a perfect book. Anyway, so I had this publishing house and then of course I thought of Gaye who I'd stayed in touch with as she also came to the HOK Gallery in the Hague and I wrote an essay for her exhibition she had there. I thought it would just be great to make a booklet together and we were just sitting talking, Eric was there too and it just came together and I think Eric might have said, what about the memorabilia objects, so yeah, it just happened.
Eric Waring is the photographer who took the majority of the photos in the book, it's lucky that Gaye has kept most of her memorabilia and prized possessions.
L: Yeah, in a very sort of conscious way and what she kept, she kept it carefully, or even not carefully like with the leather jacket she just put in the garden when it was finally returned by somebody who stole it after decades. She had this leather jacket that she was always wearing in all those iconic photographs and it was stolen from a dressing room in Ireland and she didn't see it for decades and then suddenly it was posted back anonymously. So, she just had this jacket but it was really mouldy and horrible when she got it back so she put it in the garden and it became a home for spiders, but even then it's a caring way to interact with an object.
It's amazing that she got it back, so you've chosen twelve items, how did you start off?
L: The starting point was Gaye's memorabilia collages because she made this series of digital collages and the objects are all in there so that was the starting point, but then Eric had to re-photograph them for the book as the images were not so suitable for printing.
Gaye's left the music world and she's now an Artist and she does use a lot of her memorabilia in her artwork which is really effective isn't it.
L: Yeah, there are a lot of personal mementoes also from before and after the Punk era, all her artworks are filled with personal significant little things.
So the booklet itself is beautifully produced, I'm really happy as I've got to actually look at it finally, and Gaye is writing about the background to each item with some great photos by Eric. You've also included some postcards, you've got a reproduction of the rat sticker that was on her bass and you've even got a reproduction of the fantastic The Damned and The Adverts advert on newspaper, it's almost like it's come out of Sounds in 1976. That's 'The Damned can now play three chords The Adverts can play one, hear all four of them' and then you've got all the tour dates and that's the famous picture of Gaye and Dave Vanian which I'm sure will be familiar to many people. So you get these nice little extras which I think makes it a little bit special and you've done two versions of the booklet, you've got this version that I've got here and then you've got one in a deluxe special edition.
L: Yeah the special edition, I mean the regular version is quite special as it is, if I may say so myself! So the main extras are the poster and three postcards and the rat sticker, I had to cut out 300 rats so I hope you guys appreciate it! It's Riso printed which is quite a special technique and comes in a limited edition of 150 copies in total and numbers 1-25 are the special editions and they come with a signed A4 print of one of Gaye's memorabilia collages, a very nice print.
I won't give everything away on what's in the booklet, people will have to buy it to find out, but some of the more interesting items featured include Iggy Pop's dog collar and a Ramones baseball bat which are quite bizarre, and there's a battered tour suitcase along with other various bits and pieces which I won't give away yet but it's nice to hear the stories behind them. When I got this copy I thought, 'oh wow this must be the deluxe edition' but there's all the extras that come with the standard version too so it's very good value. So, the book will be available from August, you're going to be at the Rebellion Festival in August, will you be there over the whole weekend?
L: I will be yeah, Gaye will have a stall and I'm just a hanger-on, then there's a Q&A session where we're officially presenting it.
So if you're at Rebellion from August 7th-10th you can pick up a copy or you can order the book from here. Leonor, you said you're getting orders from all over the place already.
L: Yeah from Australia and Mexico, I was really surprised, many orders from the United States, California it's quite surprising and then many from the Netherlands as well.
You've done some previous publications haven't you, including old fanzines and Dutch Punk and things like that as well.
L: Yeah, quite a few publications now, I started by writing a book about Dutch Punk that came out in 2012, and that was because I knew quite a lot about UK bands but I had no idea about what was going on in the Netherlands at that time so I became really curious what was here. Why do I know so many bands in the UK but what else was going on, so that was the starting points of my research. Then I also have quite a few other interests but I always come back to Punk and Post-Punk.
So do you think this idea you have here is something you could spread out to other musicians that you know?
L: I never like to do the same thing twice so I always want to reinvent myself or my work so the publications I've done with Sago now, so far one is photographs and snapshots taken in New York and then there's one coming out with drawings by Dirk Polak from the Dutch New Wave band Mecano. What I like is talking to underground musicians and artists, finding out what they have that has never seen the daylight, that people are not aware of, that's what I really like, digging that out. It's a private archive so what I like to do with my publications is that you have the feeling like you are actually visiting the person, you become a little bit closer to the person, it's biographical in the end.
We're now joined by Gaye and I was wondering how you both narrowed it down to 12 items?
L: Well, it started at Rebellion from the memorabilia collage artwork, there were ten of them, then the final selection was quite tricky actually.
Tell us about Iggy's dog collar Gaye...
Gaye: In 1977 The Adverts were asked to do the U.K. tour with Iggy and throughout the course of that he was always trying to give me items of his clothing, like that raincoat in that picture of him and Patti Smith but I said no, I don't have room for that, so he had this dog collar and he said "would you like that?" and I said OK.
How did you get hold of a Ramones baseball bat?
G: It was the first time they played in London at the Roundhouse and at the end of the gig Joey came out from the side of the stage and he was giving out these promotional baseball bats and I had one. But I think most people probably couldn't be bothered to carry them home so they became really rare but I held on to it and I've had it ever since, it's not a full size baseball bat, it's there under the TV if you want to see it!
What about the battered old suitcase?
G: This is an old suitcase of my parents that they gave me when I moved to London that was living up in my attic room and it came with me when we went off on tour, 'cos it was the only thing I had. We didn't have rucksacks or things in those days, so I lived out of that for several years. The stickers, I'm a great one for sticking any stickers onto things, a random selection, that big Damned one on the front, that's from their first album I think, carefully unpeeled.
The suitcase is like one of your works of art, one of your collages in itself, you've got backstage passes, Motorhead stickers you've got the Damned one.
G: There's a couple of more contemporary ones too, like The Briefs, but that's quite an old Briefs one, that's probably vintage by now.
L: It's also kind of nice that you haven't kept it as a museum piece, it's just part of your life and still is.
G: Yeah, it was but it's kind of broken now so I can't use it anymore.
So what was it like for you going through looking at these items, was it interesting to drag up the back stories behind them?
G: Yes, I haven't kept all that many things but I had the idea for doing my memorabilia series at Rebellion in 2016 'cos that was their anniversary gig and they went down really well, so I've been doing variations on them. I don't have that many objects and Leonor is a great collector and object fan and she had this idea so she came round here and narrowed it down to what's in the book.
Well it's great, it's a really unique way of looking at someone's musical life rather than a just a typical biography, list of dates or tour diary it's an unusual take 'cos of all the stories behind the items.
G: I very rarely get rid of anything, I value the things that have memories and if I do get rid of anything it's usually something that I've had more recently so the core things remain.
I don't want to give too much away, people will have to buy the book to find out what's inside. You'll be at Rebellion Festival doing a Q&A session and having your art on display and I guess the books will be on sale.
G: Yes, I'll be interviewed and Leonor will be doing a presentation during my interview and I'll be selling new art stuff in the adjoining room to the literary stage.
Thanks to Leonor and Gaye, as mentioned if you are at Rebellion Festival in Blackpool this year, you'll be able to pick up a copy directly and also check out Gaye's fantastic art. Otherwise, you can order from SAGO Press at this link, find out more about Leonor's projects at her web-site here and you can check out Gaye Black Art here.
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